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Bear Doesn't Know for Sure, but...

He suspects there are those who wish Francis would have advanced their agenda without fanfare and fireworks. The Bear thinks this pontificate has been a mess, and not what was intended. Now Catholics are polarized and the superultramontanism position has been discredited. However, the Bear is realistic, and understands things look different from the trenches, than from the liberal-trickling-down-to-the-average-Catholic mind-set. It would probably be wise to note that we are in the tiny minority, and even that doesn't agree on much. Francis drives a few of us crazy, but at this point, we are probably more useful in ways that do not depend on numbers.

Comments

  1. Americans tend to have a strong "stay off of my lawn" attitude. This tends to get mixed into how we treat the Pope, be he Benedict or Francis or a future Pius. We are a society that believes that walls make good neighbors. We also believe in self sufficiency and that one shouldn't be poking about in one's neighbor's problems.

    Those who want orthodoxy and orthopraxy perhaps need to reevaluate those American positions in light of Pope Francis....at least in so far as the American expression of ecclesiology by the laity goes. The episcopate has obviously mucked it up when it comes to what the Church is. That is the burning question at the heart of Vatican II. It should make any layperson sad to see that the episcopate is so confused. Perhaps we need to, instead of wishing that they would stay off of our lawn, endeavor to, using language that they would understand, accompany them.

    These are my thoughts this morning over coffee.

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    1. Owl, did you really use the work "accompany?" Bear thinks you need more coffee.

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    2. "The episcopate has obviously mucked it up when it comes to what the Church is. That is the burning question at the heart of Vatican II."

      So after 1965 years of existence, the fathers of VII had no idea what the "Church is". I will answer that question. Pope Francis is VII. It took a 50 year cold civil war, but Pope Francis should answer all of those questions concerning VII.

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    3. Jerome~

      Pope Francis isn't Vatican II. It is really not fair either to Vatican II or Pope Francis to equate the two.

      If there is a dead horse that I will beat, it is the idea that Vatican II just came out of nowhere. It didn't. It is the Church's attempt to deal with some serious issues that had been bubbling under the surface for some time -- especially concerning "What is the Church?".

      Vatican II was written during a time with massive social and political upheaval, adjustment, and realignment, both practically and in terms of philosophical understanding of the world. Neo-Thomistic categories and understandings were seen as not painting a full picture as well as being part of the problem. Vatican II is a product of the theology and episcopate that came before it and participated in it.

      Pope Francis is more of a resultant of Vatican II, as an event, than a product of it. That his theology is spotty is not because of the theology laid out in Vatican II. Your typical South American Jesuit doesn't believe in the Theology of Vatican II anyway.

      (Owl has been waiting for a South American Jesuit to say that they are not, as a whole, spotty in their theology for some time. I never hear that he is atypical.)

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    4. Vatican II was a coup. In one respect, it didn't come from no where, as the theological 'experts' didn't adopt their ideology overnight. In another respect, it did come from no where: formally, officially, the Church - if we assume VII is a true act of the Church - was unlike anything came before. John XXIII said so himself in his opening address. He said the Church is doing a 180 and relating to the world in an entirely new and different way.

      One issue with trying to defend the theology of VII is that, given the ambiguities and conflicts within the documents themselves, the 'theology' you defend from VII is the one that you've read into it.

      As I believe VII was a coup, I believe also the theological 'dialogue' that has ensued was intentional. The "compromise formulas" (see Card. Kasper's comments on this) in the documents were probably not the original intention of the 'experts' - they likely wanted something more definitive and radical - but practically speaking, and perhaps in the long run better for the devil's purpose - much of the same ends have been accomplished with the aide of the documents. That which is most harmful to the sincere and faithful Catholic seeking the truth in all of this, is probably that which sounds a bit or mostly orthodox, but which still is ultimately laced with poison.

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  2. Yes, prayer and penance have power.

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    1. Michael, I have no doubt about the utmost importance for prayer and penance. In fact, Our Lady at Fatima requested those exact means to end the first world war. She didn't request demonstrations, political engagement of some nature, nor even requesting Vatican diplomatic intervention. Having said that, both of us are quite aware that this Pope,by his own personal agenda, has done IRREPARABLE damage to the Church. His temporal and spiritual governance has assured its destructive consequence will affect many more generations yet to come, if this world survives that long. He has consciously and systematically destroyed what Pope Benedict tried to rectify after the ravages of post VAT.II. And in order to assure that what he is doing now will not be in vain for the future of the Church, He is blatantly choosing such 'progressive' men for the college of Cardinals that even Bergolio himself will look like St. Thomas Aquinas (with bad shoes). Today, to my dismay,I read on the Pewsitter blog, that the Pope issued a decree for a new commission to revaluate the current translation of all liturgical books. We will thus be returning to the garbage of gender inclusivity, rather than a backward and slavish approach to interpreting the original texts in Latin. Once again, the liberal liturgists will destroy the beauty of the Mass. Although I do not consider myself 'old'(I am 63), I have concluded that nothing will change for the better in the Church in my lifetime, perhaps it will only worsen, Our Lord alone knows the future. I have become numb to the entire situation, perhaps like people in the midst of the ravages of war. I have to survive throughout all of this by keeping my eyes fixed upon Our Lord, receiving Him in the Holy Eucharist, praying my rosary, especially for the Church,the conversion of sinners beginning with myself and the humility not to judge but to implore mercy upon a world that is on the precipice of destruction.

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