Tuesday, September 15, 2015

Michael Voris Goes Postal On SSPX

Michael Voris has no love for the SSPX, as he has made abundantly clear. When SSPX came out with a video urging people to boycott their local Novus Ordo mass, Voris seemed to be vindicated. But then Pope Francis said that during his Year of Mercy only, SSPX priests could grant valid absolutions. That enhanced the legitimacy of SSPX, since they could hardly be outside of the Church if the Pope could do what he did.

But today Michael Voris, with a degree of ire normally reserved for bishops who approve homosexuality, doubles down on his position on SSPX as schismatics.

Below are two videos. The first is today's Vortex, and the second is a longer one from the Remnant's Michael Matt and Chris Ferarra.

The Bear has to side more with Michael Voris on this one. He knows his Novus Ordo mass at his own parish may not be state-of-the-art 1563 A.D. but at least it is part of the Roman Catholic Church. Even if he has to nail his foot to the floor in front of his favorite pew to sit through it. He is not so sure about the status of the SSPX, for all their undeniable doctrinal and liturgical purity. Watch the videos and make up your own mind.


The Vortex


The Remnant

22 comments:

  1. Fr. Brandon O'Brien ‏@Fr_BOBrien 57m57 minutes ago
    @RorateCaeli Catholic tribunals handle laicization cases for SSPX priests but not for Orthodox.That about sums it up.They're #notinschism

    ReplyDelete
  2. Well, fwiw I'm not losing any sleep over whether the SSPX is schismatic or not. It's no secret that we all can think of worse folks to share the neighborhood with (and as Michael Voris acknowledges, they're right under our noses).

    As a practical matter, who is going to cause me greater concern: my cousin who may be a blood relation but makes the family weep with shame and distress, or the fellow from the wrong side of the tracks who is such a decent guy that I wish he'd marry my daughter (if I had a daughter :-)?

    Sure, it's worth remaining aware of what the SSPX does, and if it is schismatic there's no harm in saying so. For now, though, that's as far as it goes for me. I will find it puzzling if Voris chooses to belabor this matter.

    ReplyDelete
  3. Bears aren't smart enough to know if they confess their sins to an SSPX priest (outside the "Year of Mercy") if they're really absolved. This Bear is suspicious, but you pretty much expressed his attitude, Jane. I think there is a back-and-forth dynamic that has been driven by events, as much as Voris, at least lately.

    ReplyDelete
  4. I'm with Jane. I also believe other folks have asserted that SSPX is rather in limbo than in schism. (Fr Z has posted over the years, of course.) I don't know why Voris is on this issue. I also don't know what authority he speaks with eiter. Let it go Voris. There are bigger and more dangerous fish to fry.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Bigger and more dangerous, indeed. Voris relentlessly (and unjustly) attacks the SSPX but remains stubbornly aloof when it comes to the Oracle of Santa Marta.

      Delete
  5. I have no access to the SSPX. I wish I could attend their beautiful liturgies AND receive Holy Communion from their priests who I understand are valid and licit to consecrate, but before the year of mercy cannot hear confession. I also understand their marriages are invalid. So, until those two sanctions are lifted, I'd refrain (well, we think they can hear our confession, but the permission was sloppy in its canonical rendering I'm led to believe).

    Michael Voris is going "postal" and it is difficult to grasp why. If the outcome of the Synod is Lucifarian ie: the bishops direct blessings of same sex unions publicly at Novus Ordo masses-- well then, I'm outta there and will CLING to the SSPX if they are the only hold-outs. I will physically leave my diocese for another as soon as feasible and seek out the SSPX.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. SACERDOS

      “They have abandoned the Fort, those
      who should have defended it.” (St. John Fisher)

      Who held the Fort
      Till the Calvary came
      Fighting for all
      In His Holy Name?

      Who fed the sheep
      As the pastures burned dry?
      A few Good Shepherds
      Heeding their cry.

      Who led the charge
      ‘Gainst heresy’s Huns
      Defending the degreed
      To His lowliest ones?

      Who battened down
      The hatch of the barque
      To warm cold souls
      From shivering-seas dark?

      “Who?” mocks Satan
      Delighting in doubt
      Fills you with questions,
      Never lets you find out.

      “Hoc est enum
      Corpus meum…
      and for many…” who kept
      The dead words – Te Deum!

      Delete
  6. I know it is futile to predict what will transpire at the Synod, but is your back up plan to nail your foot to the floor in the event of being witness to a same-sex blessing in church?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. The Bear would definitely need his nail more than ever! He doesn't expect to see doctrine changed on that. He expects to see much evil committed in the name of "pastoral practice" though.

      Delete
    2. "Pastoral" is the lie to hide the "subtle Christological heresy" (Cardinal Muller of CDF) of divorcing practice from doctrine to eradicate it without saying so explicitly. Don't swallow the lies.

      Delete
  7. Will the FFSP bless same-sex unions if directed to do so by their bishops? If they resist, what will be the consequence? I bet they are shaking in their cassocks.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Oh yes it will. Priests will have to choose - the Truth versus the corrupt hierarchy. Just watch, Synod and after.

      Delete
  8. If bishops promote the blessing of same sex unions in a Catholic Church, Catholic doctrine is rendered a "dead letter". Our shepherds are then surely wolves.

    If the bishops act immorally with the encouragement of the Pope, why wouldn't the SSPX shine brightly as the the only refuge for those who love the Truth? Would you continue to donate to your diocesan development drive? Wouldn't you have cognitive dissonance?

    ReplyDelete


  9. I was banned yesterday from Church Militant for making the following comment. Michael can dish it out but take any criticism himself.

    Michael, why are you fixated on the legitimacy of SSPX? I found your talk little more than a tiresome tirade about your obsessive and legalistic concerns. To go on as you do about this seems positively clinical.

    Please get serious. How does SSPX compare in religious results to the Catholic Church since Vatican II. What is their divorce rate? Practice of contraception? Mass attendance? These are the things that matter: religious results not legal formalities.

    And now to cast your pettifogging on this issue in even greater relief, why do you find the "splinter in the eye" of SSPX and not the "beam" of the unmentioned questionable actions of Pope Francis in your own eye.

    Michael, you are acting like a Pharisee. Please look at substance of SSPX not the surface.

    ReplyDelete
  10. Hmmm. Voris is now more papal than his papliness.

    Funny thing is if you go to an SSPX confession, you should confess participating at a N.O. Mass. Maybe Frank should consider having an SSPX priest as his confessor.

    Seattle Kim

    ReplyDelete
  11. Cardinal Hoyos and Ecclesia Dei said over and over again for years that the SSPX are not in schism. They are inside the Catholic Church, but are in an irregular canonical status. They have no ordinary jurisdiction. They need to be regularized, but they are Catholic.

    Ecclesia Dei even said a Catholic could fulfill his Sunday obligation at an SSPX chapel.

    The SSPX consider the Novus Ordo valid. They have never denied its validity. The rite and Mass has been so stripped, watered down, and deprived of Catholic theology in its texts, the SSPX has taken the stance that it's better to avoid it. You can disagree with that opinion and attend the Novus Ordo, but it cannot be denied the Novus Ordo rite is in itself deficient. Any honest person looking at the last 40 years, can say that the Novus Ordo was a mistake. It was a mistake to change the Mass.

    ReplyDelete
  12. The Bear senses quotes can be produced to support both positions. See the latest Vortex. Ecclesia Dei even said Catholics should not ordinarily seek out an SSPX chapel to fulfill their Sunday obligations, according to Michael Voris.

    SSPX flat out said don't go to the Mass of the Roman Catholic Church, but stay home and say a rosary. Of course I disagree with that, and I am very suspicious of any group that would say such a thing.

    As for the merits or deficiencies of the Novus Ordo Mass, they are entirely irrelevant to this discussion. SSPX is not the Church. SSPX does not get to decide what the Mass looks like for everybody else. If it turned out to be a mistake, it turned out to be a mistake. Perhaps THE CHURCH will fix it in its own geological time, or perhaps that is the new look of the Mass, and however much we don't like it, we should get used to it, put our heads down, and stay by the side of Christ.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. The introduction of a new rite of Mass is purely a prudential governing decision of discipline from the Pope that any Catholic is free to disagree with. It's not faith and morals, but discipline. An act of governance. And you better believe there should be some disagreement with one the biggest blunders in the history of the Church. Cardinal Ottaviani warned the Novus Ordo was a departure from Catholic theology.

      The Church already has a Roman rite. The TLM was never abrogated, so the TLM has always been the Mass of the Church. It's just that since Paul VI introduced the Novus Ordo rite, we have had two Masses side by side in the Church. I will go as far to say that Paul VI's introduction of a new rite and Mass was itself illegal. A situation that needs to be remedied. The Church needs to fix it now. They already lost 2 generations of Catholics because of the Novus Ordo and they have no priests. It's only going to get worse.

      The SSPX and every single Catholic on planet Earth, has the right to say to the Pope and hierarchy and, please get rid of this Mass.

      Delete
    2. As the Bear said, with all due respect, the deficiencies of the Novus Ordo mass are irrelevant on the issue of the SSPX's schismatic mind set and -- to be charitable -- uncertain status. The Bear doesn't disagree with you or Cardinal Ottaviani. But to bring the discussion back to facts, the SSPX is the one who came out and said the Novus Ordo was an offense against God and people should stay at home and say a rosary. That is more than asking that the Church get rid of it. And SSPX is not hung up just on the Novus Ordo mass. They don't accept an entire council of the Church.

      Delete
    3. Voris is fixated on something that I'd rate a "D" in the problems normal Catholics in the pew face--and as the Church goes also. Since he can't rant on the real issue-the Pope's part in the upcoming synod, he finds a topic, gets blowback and it has festered in his mind he can't let it go...let go Michael, we have all listened to CMTV's take. This is not what is going to break the Church. We would not be talking about this again-would we if it wasn't for CMTV's policy on the Pope they won't walk back which has left them impotent to engage in the HUGE story which is this Pontificate. As a former Journalist (now) Micheal is suffering from the policy that he had no hand in scripting, but had to affirm due to the spiritual advisor, and funder at CMTV. This is not relevant. What Catholic has time to spend on the SSPX status when our Pope is in America talking about smog and climate change instead of the faith. Why are we listening to Voris on Church matters anymore? I don't have time to listen to what is not going on--I need to know what is going on. I am a Roman Catholic, I respect the office of the Pope, I will adhere to him on faith and morals (when he sits ex cathdra) I will bow to his authority as defined by the Church. I will not follow him if doctrine is changed--but it won't be--its much worse than that!!

      What they will do at the synod is what they did at V2--they will make pastoral suggestions, which the left will fly with--they will use it to change the faith, don't you see? Its awesome how they followed the communistic model exactly on us, the TLM could be said--but after years of the "change" people just thought---no this is the Mass now. They don't need to change doctrine to start the next phase to the "revolution" which was V2--this is just the next step. Wake up! Stop talking about how Voris is freaking out over the SSPX or whatever Cardinal said about homosexuals---this is our generations V2 moment! Remember V2 was pastoral --right? And the synod is?? RIIGGHT! They don't want to make huge headlines, but the synod will make suggestions, and after years like V2 these suggestions will start being the norm....this is the continuation of the revolution of V2.

      Delete

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